[Eddie Whelan]

Hi JoGregory,

Thank you for your nice reply.

I’m near the precipice of hopelessness myself right now, good to know I am not alone!

On this note, may I remind of an old governmental NHS (pre-COVID) saying “Don’t forget we’ve never had it so good!”

I really think we need an MDSO giggle forum!

PS: No trees were harmed in the posting of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

[Eddie Whelan]

Hello,

My Community side of our Trust has not tried axilla thermometry and we only use them in clinical settings (e.g. Treatment Rooms, Walk in Centres, etc.). I would be very interested in your community staff’s comments on how they fare with axilla thermometry, if you go down this route.

Stay safe…

[Eddie Whelan]

Hi all,

B. Deacon:
What cleaning products are you currently using on your Pro 6000s? Are you using what is recommended in the user manual?

Jo Gregory:
Some EBMEs (& private companies) are using ‘black body irradiators’ to test their non-contact thermometers at a spot temperature and then extrapolating the result. It’s not the best way of checking non-contact temperatures (i.e. the extrapolating part), but it is a starting point for some EBMEs. It’s cheap and cheerful, but your EBME might not rate this approach!

Moreover, I’m currently looking at new (Chinese made) non contact and tympanic thermometer ‘in one’ (the T-110). It’s sold by Marsden (https://www.marsden-weighing.co.uk/index.php/ear-forehead-thermometer.html) and it ticks all the right legislation boxes. However, when I tried the Pro 6000 probe tip covers we use, they just kept dropping off. I’m in contact with Marsden (just now) and finding out which tip covers they would recommend and what calibrators they use to check the readings across the patient temperature range (e.g. for Pro 6000s it’s 36.0, 38.5 and 40.0 degree C). I’ll update when I have further information.

Kerry Palmer:
From all the user manuals I’ve read, I haven’t found one manual that states that non-contacts may be used straight away without a ‘climatisation period’ (usually between 20 to 30 minutes for accurate temperature readings). For the Acutes, this shouldn’t be a problem, however, for the Community, in my opinion, non contacts should be used only as a guide temperature because of their potential errors e.g. has to be parallel with forehead at a specific distance, wrinkles, makeup, sweat, hair, user hand movement, environmental conditions, etc. Tympanic thermometers don’t have to consider most of these errors.

If you are looking at the Zeal ACT8000s tympanic thermometers (clinical use/ medical device), remember that these might take 30 minutes to warmup when cold.

FYI (all)
Below is a list of all the tympanic thermometers we currently use. We are an amalgamated and amalgamating (many times & with different partners – on going process), ever changing Community and Mental Health Trust which we are still trying to standardise our medical devices. From a patient safety/ litigation view point, I’m getting rid of all of the ‘Home use’ devices (obviously can’t do this with the current lack of availability of tympanic thermometers {TTs}).

Manufacturer Model TTs recommended location usage from manual
GH Zeal Ltd ACT8000 Clinical Use **When cold requires 30 mins to warm up
Ningbo Huahui Medical Instruments Co., Ltd. ET-100A Home use **No serial number = litigation issues
Omron Ltd Gentle Temp 510 Home use
MSR Ltd ST613CNP Home use
Merlin Medical Ltd TH809 Clinical Use **If held to long, might give higher readings!
Braun GmbH Thermoscan 5 Home use
Welch Allyn International Ltd Thermoscan Pro 4000 Clinical use, ceased production
Welch Allyn International Ltd Thermoscan Pro 6000 Clinical use

In lockdown 1, I decided to read all user manuals of all commonly used devices that were on our medical device asset database. I know this sounds sad, but I am quite normal really! I summarised the lists by clinical or home use. Clinical use means it is a medical device by definition and may be used by clinicians/ Trusts. Home use means it is designed for patient use and not clinicians. If anyone would like the product of my endeavours, I have lists for NIBP (upper arm/ wrist), BP sphygmomanometers (Pocket/ Desk/ Stand/ Wall), Vital signs monitors, Tympanic thermometers, Probe thermometers (Axillary), IR non-contact thermometers, Pulse oximeters (Finger/ Handheld/ Bedside), Ear Irrigators, and Suction machines.

After I read all those exhilarating user manuals and finished my equipment lists, I decided that life would be so much more pleasant if I just gave up hope!

Hope you are all enjoying working from home and I apologise for my lengthy reply…

All the best.

[Eddie Whelan]

Hi,

The Braun Thermoscan 5s (and many others) are the ones we hope to move away from. They have been very reliable for DNs, but we were buying in 50 every 3 months (ish!) for replacements or for new starters (list price approx. £40 each, but we got them for £27 each from Henry Schein). Please e-mail me on eddie.whelan at merseycare.nhs.uk, as I know of a supplier that might have some PRO6000s being delivered shortly…

[Eddie Whelan]

Hello,

I suspect the scarcity of tympanics is due to all governments stock piling them and the fact that factories in the far east have been effectively shut since the pandemic started (I know, this is a massive, sweeping, generalised statement!).

As a Trust, we are looking at standardising our tympanics (most likely to the PRO6000s). However, as an interim measure and due to the recent attainability issues with tympanics, we have had to purchase 100 x BK8005 non contact infrared thermometers from Bokang Instruments Co. Ltd. These are being used (as an interim measure) by our community staff until we start receiving new tympanics. In the past, we have only used non contact thermometers on patients that do not like to be touched (predominantly on Mental Health wards).

With my physics hat on (and in my opinion), surface or body thermograhpy is not equivalent to tympanic thermometery. For a reliable fever detection, the inner canthus of the eye is the only site (on the face) that you will get a reliable temperature measurement from. There are ISO guidelines regarding infrared ‘thermography’, in addition to an editorial paper (http://www.uhlen.at/thermology-international/data/pdf/300105.pdf) that will explain in more detail. This will give you an idea of the inaccuracies when using non contact thermometery.

Are you going to return to the tympanics after the supply issue for the PRO6000s are resolved?

[Eddie Whelan]

Hello all,

I hope you are all well.

Does anyone know where the centralised stock of pulse oximeters is and how to gain access to them? This question was raised on an NHS procurement forum earlier this week. By early July, the government will have purchased 310,000 pulse oximeters (types & models unknown). They are to be split in the following way:

1. 15,000 for care homes,
2. 10,000 for rapid pilots,
3. 210,000 for community, &
4. 75,000 for acute hospitals for SDEC.

I have half a page (from an official pdf document) which states the above, but I can’t identify who wrote it or were it was published. Is there anyway to upload this pdf, to this forum, just in case someone may be able to identify it?

I’m sure most of our Trusts require access to these pulse oximeters now!

Any help, will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

Eddie.

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